This is in response to the third post in the "Colorado Sports" series currently going on.
Ok, well after reading that, based on your response it would seem we would have to agree to disagree. I mean, now we are venturing into the land of pure opinion, especially when drawing most of your argument from Denver Post articles(last time I checked, those are written by individuals, not fan bases). And I guess I am not of the opinion that message board posts have any real value. Looking at fan turnout, it seems Denver-based sports are doing just fine.
With that being said, you know I can't help myself. So on to another rebuttal!
Addressing the TV ratings, a quick google search didn't yield much for me. I didn't try too hard to track down numbers, maybe you could point me in the right direction.
As for the reasons why fans attend or don't attend games, that seems like a pointless topic to argue. Maybe you are right, maybe its a convenient justification. I was just drawing purely on numerical data as I don't have that kind of insight as to what obstacles there are to D-Backs fans.
As for knowing and accepting your team's limits, you make a good point, that believing that a championship will be celebrated yearly might be a bit delusional. But please spare me the Woody Paige stuff, everyone knows the guy is a nutjob. You mentioned that you believed the Suns didn't have a team that could bring home the title this year. But are you telling me if they made the Conf Finals, or even the NBA finals, you would still hold firmly to that belief? If you answer yes, then I think you are delusional. However, I think it is safe to say that upon entering the playoffs, delusion becomes inapplicable. I think most fans would agree, especially in baseball, that all bets are off in October. Regarding the Marion comment, are you a Marion fan or a Suns fan? Losing that player seriously made you consider if you would go celebrate a championship?
As for the Kidd comment, I am not sure I still follow you. You say that I was misleading, but maybe it was you? Maybe I misunderstood your point. You reference the wikipedia entry about them missing the playoffs in the 01-02 season. That was the first season without Kidd. They made the playoffs in his last season(00-01) and were bounced in the first round. From the link you posted, it shows that he was on the Nets in 01-02. Is that what you were referring to when saying I was misleading? If so, then sorry, you need to do your homework, not me. If not, then I don't understand the relevance of the wikipedia link.
As for your claim that the Suns wanted to get rid of him "As Soon As Possible". Well that just doesn't really hold water for me. The domestic abuse incident happened in January 2001. He was traded July 18 of the same year, a full 6 months later. Not exactly quick if you ask me. I am only assuming here, but it seems that you are drawing a contrast of Suns fans vs Nuggets fans on the subject of illegal behavior, and pointing to Suns fans and management requesting and immediate dismissal for this behavior. Nowhere in that article does it even make that claim. This is what Colangelo said "There was a general malaise," says president and general manager, Bryan Colangelo. "We lacked personality on the court, and the fans weren't entertained." Nothing about the fans expecting more character or being displeased with this behavior. Just that they needed to make a change because they lacked personality and that the product wasn't entertaining. I am going to go out on a short limb here and say that had the Suns somehow made a great playoff run that season, all would have been forgotten. Maybe Nuggets fans are just more realistic and not delusional on this point. They realize that many of the players are going to make, gasp!, mistakes. And if you overreact to a mistake a player makes(like trading him away), said player(Jason Kidd) might just lead ANOTHER team to the finals two years in a row.
I know I started pretty much every paragraph with "As for", maybe I should think these through a little more before I post.
The fact is, all sports fans are whiny. Thats what fans do, although some more than others. I know you hate the thought of having to spend anymore time away from your beloved Arizona, but I am afraid you are just going to have to get used to whiny Denver fans in the meantime.
I will be eagerly awaiting your response!
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5 comments:
My point with the SI article was they got rid of their problem cases (including DUI Cliff Robinson) ASAP. And the trade deadline (the next month) really didn't allow the Suns to get rid of either of them until after the season was done. Knowing the Colangelos, all would not have been forgotten. That's just the way they do business and thats what we're used to.
As for the Marion trade, the backlash goes back to the new ownership and how they don't do things like Jerry did. Its underhanded and belittling to tell players one thing and then to go out and do another. Welcome to the NBA right? Well, Phoenix Suns fans (and players) aren't used to it and its disconcerting to be reminded again that the Colangelos are not in charge anymore.
Oh yeah, that post from diehardfan had DBacks ratings in it. And I googled the Rockies for a 2.6 average rating for last season.
If the town's main newspaper doesn't reflect the populace, what does?
Please Veronica, spare me the accusations of misleading facts/figures. I still don't see how my statement about Kidd was misleading. If you ask me, 1 month is a fairly long time to get rid of a player. Or, if they were so disgusted with him, why not sit him down for the season until they could trade him like the Pacers did with Ron Artest or the Sixers did with AI? Besides, they didn't even get rid of all the trouble players as Penny Hardaway remained with the team. Your whole first comment hinges on your belief of the Colangelo's morals. You say "knowing the Colangelos" as if you have had intimate conversations with them or something. Don't be so naive to think you know these people.
From your second comment, I can clearly gather that Jerry was God to you and any move by new ownership, even if they are trying to bring you(the fan) a championship, will never match what good old Jerry and Co did.
As for your ratings comment, I almost want to laugh out loud. You claim the D-Backs triple the Rockies in ratings? I am only going off the numbers from the article you linked and Rockies numbers in your comment, but that was seriously a misleading and completely inaccurate statement. In that article it doesn't really give any overall ratings for the year, but its gives a few cherry-picked ones. Such as a 6.7 for ONE GAME. Or that they were averaging a 6.0 thru 11 games in August, a 30% increase from July. My math, which could be a little off tells me then that the D-Backs were doing like a 4.6 or so in July. Last time I checked, even a 6.7 is not 3 times a 2.6.
That was truly misleading, and you know it and I shouldn't have to respond to it! But it was too fun not to.
I could give you the FSN link for total ratings last year, but I won't. You're worse than my brother and my dad about last words and its starting to get annoying. Let me just say: Phoenix knows the Colangelo's and they know why Kidd left. Sorry you can't take the truth or lose an arguement.
Ok this is getting a bit silly. I think you guys will just have to come to agreement that you do not see eye to eye on most things and don't really understand where the other one is coming from. I will have to say (not being a sports fan in the slightest) just going on arguments and the hard cold facts presented, Andrew has won. No hard feelings Von you know I love you. Sorry he can be annoying but most people know not to argue with Andrew on most things cause he doesn't spout of anything he can't prove with data. Being his wife I can honestly say that if he finds he is wrong in an argument he has no problem admitting it. Anyway to anyone reading this Andrew will be starting his own blog cause I'm kicking him off. I don't need this nonsense taking over my blog.
Sarah
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